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Are you sad? Just be happy! Does this irritate you? In today’s show, Gabe and Lisa ponder whether happiness really is a choice — especially for people who struggle with mental illness. How do we measure happiness? And what is happiness inflation?

Join us for an in-depth conversation on whether or not people can actually choose happiness.

(Transcript Available Below)

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About The Not Crazy podcast Hosts

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an As***le and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.









Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond†award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace su***de prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, picks the best one, and sends the other 11 back.





Computer Generated Transcript for “Happiness a Choice†Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.

Gabe: Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Not Crazy podcast, I’m your host Gabe Howard, and with me, as always, is Lisa Kiner. Lisa, I’m inviting you to speak right now so that you know that it is your turn. This comes up more than you think when Lisa doesn’t know when she can talk. I do take some responsibility for this because, you know, I’m a talker, Lisa.

Lisa: You’re going to have to redo that, because I won’t be able to edit that because you slurred it into your words.

Gabe: I wanted you to, I wanted you to leave that there.

Lisa: Why would I leave that there?

Gabe: Because it’s funny.

Lisa: Uh-huh, it’s not that funny.

Gabe: I thought it was funny, plus I’m picking on you. I think it’s good. We’re supposed to fight more.

Lisa: We’re supposed to fight. Wait a minute. What? I’m sorry, I didn’t listen the last part. Why are we supposed to fight more?

Gabe: People like the debate, they like the acrimony, they like the frenemies, we’ve been accused of getting along too well. We haven’t created enough drama.

Lisa: Really?

Gabe: Yes.

Lisa: Someone actually said that?

Gabe: Multiple people have said this.

Lisa: Whoa! Oh, my God, this is my dream. So, you’re telling me that the goal is to fight with you more?

Gabe: The goal was always to be frenemies.

Lisa: But to specifically fight with you more? Oh, my God, I’m going to be so good at this.

Gabe: I know that’s why I picked you.

Lisa: Oh, I’ve been training for this for years.

Gabe: I thought you were uniquely qualified to not be a yes person.

Lisa: Thank you.

Gabe: I was very disturbed when people are like, yeah, the problem is, Lisa’s a yes person

Lisa: I don’t think that’s true; you just usually say that the right stuff, just not always. When you’re wrong, you’re wrong by a lot, but usually you’re good. Otherwise, I wouldn’t hang out with you because it would annoy me too much.

Gabe: Wow, I don’t know what that’s like.

Lisa: OK, going back. You said welcome. All right. Hey, everyone, see, I’m pretending like that whole thing didn’t happen. I’m just going now because I’m a professional. Don’t give me that look. Hey, everyone. Today’s quote comes to us from Abraham Lincoln. And he said, Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be. And he was the 16th president.

Gabe: You know, Lisa, I much preferred the quote, and I’m disappointed that you didn’t use it, which is I feel like I’m constantly worrying about the next part of my life without realizing that I’m right in the middle of what I used to look forward to. And that came from a Twitter user, Josie Vanco.

Lisa: All right, that is an absolutely brilliant quote and describes you perfectly, but yeah, I feel like you’re not really understanding the essence of the quotes. I got the 16th president, the savior of our nation. And you found one of your Twitter followers who does, in fact, say something very smart. I just really feel like you need to up your quote game. Maybe I could get you a book or a website or something. I’m better at quotes than you.

Gabe: You’re arguing with me for no reason.

Lisa: You told me to do that.

Gabe: The, it’s got to be good.

Lisa: Well, this is a burden to me.

Gabe: Let me start over.

Lisa: Can’t just turn it on and off, Gabe.

Gabe: Abraham Lincoln was obviously great, I mean, we learned about him in school and we clearly did not learn about Josie Vanco.

Lisa: His birthday is the same day as my mom’s.

Gabe: They’re about the same age.

Lisa: Ha ha.

Gabe: This quote spoke to me, like you said, it describes me to a T. Do you remember the show The Office? Remember the office? One of the quotes that one of the characters made is that the problem with it being the best years of your life is that you don’t know they’re the best years of your life when you’re living them.

Lisa: Totally true.

Gabe: I think all of us, you know, struggling with mental health issues, depression, sadness, loneliness, anxiety. We don’t know when it’s good when it’s happening. We know when we’re suffering. And then we reflect backwards and think, oh, why can’t I be like last summer when I was happy? But of course, here’s the thing. Last summer, we didn’t know we were happy. It’s only in retrospect.

Lisa: But is that true? I don’t know that last summer you were happy, though. Why? Because you’ve decided that last summer is better than this summer

Gabe: Sure.

Lisa: If you weren’t happy in the moment, how do you define happiness? If you didn’t know you were happy, are you really happy?

Gabe: It’s meta right? As you would say, it’s, ooohhh, so meta.

Lisa: You do not understand the meaning of any phrases that I use. That is not what that means.

Gabe: That’s because you use them all incorrectly.

Lisa: No, that’s not why.

Gabe: Is a box of boxes meta?

Lisa: That is totally meta, get it?

Gabe: But

Lisa: Whoa. Yeah.

Gabe: But thinking you’re happy when you’re unhappy, not meta?

Lisa: Right, something that’s meta is self-referential.

Gabe: So what if you’re happy, but then you don’t realize it until you have something to compare it to? Is that meta?

Lisa: Yeah, maybe let’s go with for the purposes of this conversation, yes. Yes, it is.

Gabe: My whole point is that last summer, I think pretty much the entire world, will say, was better.

Lisa: Because we’re doing a COVID thing?

Gabe: Well, I mean, it is, in fact related to the global pandemic, but you know

Lisa: Right, right.

Gabe: Last summer we went through the summer and it was just like, oh, we didn’t get the vacation that we wanted. The fair food wasn’t as good as we wanted it to be. You know, the concert series wasn’t good. Our sports team lost. It was a mediocre summer. And now we’re at this summer where everything’s canceled. The whole world’s going to hell and we’re starting to reflect back. And we’re like, you know, last summer wasn’t so bad. And in fact, it’s changed our perspective because a sh*tty fair is better than no fair. And a concert that is mediocre is better than no concert. So we’re starting to realize that last year was actually a pretty decent summer, but it’s only in retrospect. I think this is how happiness works for many people.

Lisa: Well, that’s how happiness works for you, but that’s part of your problem, you’re constantly comparing things, you’re always comparing yourself to other people, you’re always comparing this situation to that situation, and it’s always coming up short. That’s one of the reasons you’re unhappy.

Gabe: That’s because happiness has no definition, see, a dollar is a dollar. Gabe, do you have a dollar? I can look at my wallet and if there’s a dollar in there, the answer is yes. If there’s not a dollar in there, the answer is no. But then if somebody said, hey, Gabe, are you rich? Well, now what? How do we decide? Because I’m going to say, hey, I think having one hundred million dollars is rich, but you’re going to say, well, Bill Gates doesn’t. Bill Gates thinks that’s poverty. All right. Well, now what do we do? OK, so Bill Gates is rich, but, you know, the sultan of of who

Lisa: Brunei.

Gabe: Is the actual richest guy? The sultan of Brunei, he’s

Lisa: I think it’s Jeff Bezos now.

Gabe: Well, I don’t know. But there’s some Bill Gates is not the richest guy. So that person thinks that Bill Gates is poor. He doesn’t want to play on that level. And Jeff Bezos does, in fact, maybe have more money. But he’s not a sultan. He’s not royalty. He can’t make dictator laws. So I don’t know if Jeff Bezos has more money than the sultan of Brunei, but I do know for a fact that the sultan of Brunei has more power and influence than Jeff Bezos.

Lisa: I don’t know that that’s true.

Gabe: You know damn well that it’s true.

Lisa: Not the point of the story, though.

Gabe: Jeff Bezos does not have a military. He is not royalty. Jeff Bezos cannot go around and murder all of his people for fun. I don’t even know if the sultan of Brunei does that, but he’s allowed, whereas Jeff Bezos is not.

Lisa: Yeah, so that’s not the point of the show. Bring us back around to the happiness.

Gabe: This is my point. We can’t even determine who has more power, Jeff Bezos or the Sultan of Brunei? But you want me to determine happiness? How?

Lisa: No, not for everyone, just for you.

Gabe: Stop, stop right there, you just said, Gabe, I want you to try to determine happiness just for you, but you’ve also said do not compare yourself to other people, places or things.

Lisa: Right, right.

Gabe: How do I do it then? How do I know if I’m happy?

Lisa: You do not have this problem when it comes to recovery, we’ve talked many times about how recovery is self-defined.

Gabe: But OK, fine, so should I do happiness the way that I did recovery?

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: Because the way that I determined that I was in recovery is that my life was better this year than it was last year. I literally compared myself not only to previous examples of Gabe, but I also compared myself to others. And you just said not to do that with happiness.

Lisa: That’s how you decided you were in recovery?

Gabe: Of course,

Lisa: Seriously, that was your system?

Gabe: Yes, 100 percent, and I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Lisa: Wait, wait, wait. So, for example, the summer of COVID, or if you have a massive car accident tomorrow or if your dog dies, then suddenly you’ll no longer be in recovery?

Gabe: Well, potentially, what are my? What happens after that? And listen, when you said I got in a car accident, am I in physical pain?

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: Yeah, I’m probably not my best self. Don’t you think that’s reasonable?

Lisa: But does that mean you’re not in recovery from bipolar disorder?

Gabe: Potentially.

Lisa: So, you’re telling me that any single thing bad that happens in your life will automatically mean that you are no longer in recovery with

Gabe: No,

Lisa: Bipolar disorder?

Gabe: No, I don’t know why are you adding the word automatically. No, of course not. That’s.

Lisa: Because you just said that’s how you decide you decided. Today is better than the day previously. Also, doesn’t that give you, like, no wiggle room at all on a day to day basis? Are you trying to get every single day of your life better than the day before it? Because that sounds pretty hard.

Gabe: I am simply saying that when it comes to recovery, I do compare this version of Gabe to previous version of Gabes to see how I’m doing, I need some measurement to know if I’m doing better. Otherwise I could just declare myself to be in recovery, determine it to be true, and you could be like, dude, you’re homeless, you’re not taking your medication. Your wife left you, you haven’t showered in six months. But according to you, all I have to do is decide I’m in recovery and it counts. That seems like nonsense.

Lisa: So, you’re saying that the way you determine happiness is by comparing yourself to previous versions of you and deciding if you are happy? OK, I can work with this, then why aren’t you happy right now? This is the best you you’ve ever been. You’re the healthiest you’ve ever been. You’re in the best position with your recovery. You have the most money. You have the most stable relationship. You have the cutest dog. Why are you not happy right this second?

Gabe: I can answer this question with needing ten thousand dollars, right? I need ten thousand dollars.

Lisa: To be happy?

Gabe: No, I just I need ten thousand dollars. It’s an analogy

Lisa: OK

Gabe: Follow along. The goal is ten thousand dollars. Everybody understand? Gabe needs ten thousand dollars. Now you say Gabe, oh, my God, you did it. You have eight thousand dollars. And I say, I know I’m, I don’t have the ten thousand dollars. Well, but this is the most money that you’ve had towards that goal ever. So therefore, you’ve reached the goal. No, the goal is ten thousand dollars. Having eight thousand dollars means I’m still not at goal. Oh my God. You know, when you started this, you had zero and you’ve gone all the way up to eight thousand dollars. This is, in fact, the most money that you’ve had toward the goal ever. You just can’t be at goal. Now, take out the word goal and put in happiness. And there’s the problem. Also, you still haven’t defined the word happiness for me. Ten thousand dollars. That’s an exact number, right? So happiness. I want to know what happiness is. Tell me what happiness is. Everybody looks at me and says, oh, you have to determine that for yourself. It’s internal. You have to decide. Even the sixteenth president, the guy who beat my guy for the quote said, well, most folks are as happy as they make up their mind to be. Well, I guess that is a nice philosophical point and it makes people all warm and fuzzy on the inside. It’s nonsense. It’s literal nonsense.

Lisa: That is a problem.

Gabe: And also, you know, while I’m on the subject, just just while I’m here, Lisa.

Lisa: Yes, please tell me more, Gabe.

Gabe: I just I feel the need to do so. What condescending tripe is that? Oh, you’re dying and you have no money and you have no health insurance and that dog is eating your gangrened leg. Well, just make up your mind to be happy. You’re only as happy as you want to be. Listen up, world. We don’t need to take care of this person dying on the side of the road because they’ve made up their mind to be happy. Wow, that’s fantastic.

Lisa: You’ve got way too many things going at one time.

Gabe: I’ll just sit back and let you respond.

Lisa: Ok, well, it’s going to be a while because you’ve got many things going on here.

Gabe: I’ll be patient.

Lisa: First off, I love your analogies because they are very clearly illustrating everything wrong with your approach to happiness. And incidentally, the reason why you one, are not happy and two will never be happy. Ten thousand dollars represents happiness, right? That’s the analogy.

Gabe: Right, yes.

Lisa: Ok, ten thousand dollars represents happiness. What is your ten thousand dollars? What has to happen for you to reach happiness? Like you said, the ten thousand dollars, that’s clear. It’s exact. We know for sure. Either you have it or you don’t. Done. Do you have such an analogy for happiness? Can you tell me, well if blah blah blah blah then I will be happy? Do you have that?

Gabe: I mean, I do, but

Lisa: Ok, let’s hear it. Go.

Gabe: You’re about to win the arguments,

Lisa: Yes, I am, I know. That’s why I want to continue.

Gabe: I know that I’m about to get checkmated because, of course, there’s been dozens of things.

Lisa: Yes.

Gabe: As soon as I get a job, I’ll be happy. As

Lisa: Uh-huh.

Gabe: Soon as I can be self-employed, I’ll be happy. As soon as I get in a relationship, I’ll be happy. As soon as I buy a house, I’ll be happy. As soon as I get divorced from the annoying Lisa, I’ll be happy. As soon as I get a new car, I’ll be happy. As soon as I go on vacation, I’ll be happy. Currently, it’s as soon as the pandemic is over, I’ll be happy.

Lisa: It’s always something that isn’t here yet. Always. You always have one more thing that’s going to make you happy, and then when you achieve that thing, you’re like, well, yeah, I mean, I know I said last month that if I got to this goal, I would be happy. But now that I think about it. I can vividly remember the day you told me, this was before you had gastric bypass, that if you could just weigh 300 pounds, that would be it. You would never ask for anything else. That was all you wanted in life. You would be completely happy. That’s all you needed, was to weigh 300 pounds.

Gabe: In my defense, I was not yet diagnosed with bipolar disorder, so maybe it’s not that I’m unreasonable, it’s that I get new data.

Lisa: Ok, what new data have you gotten?

Gabe: The ten thousand dollars isn’t enough, the reason I wanted ten thousand dollars is because that’s how much the thing that I wanted to buy cost. But in the time it took me to save up the ten thousand dollars. The price.

Lisa: The price went up?

Gabe: Yeah. Now it costs fifteen thousand dollars. I’m not the unreasonable one. Society keeps raising the price of things. Its inflation.

Lisa: Oh, my God,

Gabe: It’s happiness inflation.

Lisa: My eyes are rolling so hard, I think I’m going to have permanent brain damage, Your problem is that society is constantly changing the definition of happiness?

Gabe: They’re raising the happiness price,

Lisa: Oh,

Gabe: It’s inflation.

Lisa: That’s.

Gabe: Yes.

Lisa: That is awesome. There are like no words to even respond to that. That’s how awesome the thing you’ve just said is.

Gabe: So I win, right, I win.

Lisa: No, no, no.

Gabe: You don’t believe in inflation?

Lisa: Happiness inflation, OK, so all right, fine, the happiness inflation has occurred. Now you need fifteen thousand dollars.

Gabe: Yes.

Lisa: What’s the current price then? You can’t tell what the price is going to be with inflation in a year, 10 years, 15 years. But you can tell me what the price is right now. So what is the price right now? Not what is it going to be when you get to the current price? What is it right this second?

Gabe: I need the pandemic to end so I can get back to my job. I want to get back to work,

Lisa: I’m writing that down.

Gabe: I would also like the things with my job to clear up. You know, there’s a lot of transition right now that’s making me uncomfortable.

Lisa: Right.

Gabe: I’d like you to drop that tone. That would be helpful.

Lisa: You all heard it here first, listeners. Gabe says that once the pandemic is over and the uncertainty with his job has cleared up and I start being nicer to him, perhaps an unrealistic goal, I’ll give you, he will achieve happiness. So that’s what it’s going to take.

Gabe: Well, I mean, assuming that inflation doesn’t take over

Lisa: Right,

Gabe: I mean,

Lisa: Right, right.

Gabe:..

Podcast: Is Happiness a Choice? Are you sad? Just be happy! Does this irritate you? In today's show, Gabe and Lisa ponder whether happiness really is a choice. Transcript included.

Is anyone single on purpose? In today’s podcast, Gabe talks with Bella DePaulo, Ph.D, a prominent thinker and author on the single life, who shatters myths about being single. She shares how many people thrive as a single person and feel their most empowered living the single life. In fact, single people often hold prominent positions in their communities.

If you assumed all single people were only single by default and are still looking for the “one,” tune in to hear a fresh new perspective.

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Guest information for ‘Bella DePaulo – Is Single Life Mentally Unhealthy’ Podcast Episode

Bella DePaulo, a Harvard PhD with more than 150 scholarly publications, has been described by the Atlantic magazine as “America’s foremost thinker and writer on the single experience.†Her TEDx talk, “What no one ever told you about people who are single,†has been viewed more than a million times.

She is the author of Singled Out: How Singles Are Stereotyped, Stigmatized, and Ignored, and Still Live Happily Ever After, How We Live Now: Redefining Home and Family in the 21st Century, and other books. She has been writing the “Living Single†blog for Psychology Today since 2008 and she wrote the “Single at Heart†blog for Psych Central from 2011 to 2020.

Professor DePaulo has also written for publications such as the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Atlantic magazine, New York magazine, Slate, Bustle, Forbes, Time magazine, the Guardian, the Chronicle of Higher Education, NBC, and CNN.

Bella DePaulo has discussed single life on radio and television, including on NPR (many times) and CNN. Her work has been described in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Cosmopolitan, Time magazine, the Atlantic, the Economist, the Week, the Nation, Business Week, AARP Magazine, Newsweek, and the TED Ideas Blog, among many others.

She is currently an Academic Affiliate in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences, University of California at Santa Barbara.

About The Psych Central Podcast Host

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an As***le and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from the author. To learn more about Gabe, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.

Computer Generated Transcript for ‘Bella DePaulo – Is Single Life Mentally Unhealthy’ Episode

Single Life Resources

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Psych Central Podcast, where guest experts in the field of psychology and mental health share thought-provoking information using plain, everyday language. Here’s your host, Gabe Howard.

Gabe Howard: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week’s episode of The Psych Central Podcast, I’m your host Gabe Howard and calling into the show today, we have Dr. Bella DePaulo, a Harvard Ph.D. with more than 150 scholarly publications. She has been described by The Atlantic magazine as America’s foremost thinker and writer on the single experience. Dr. DePaulo is the author of numerous books, including Singled Out: How Singles Are Stereotyped, Stigmatized and Ignored and Still Live Happily Ever After and How We Live Now: Redefining Home and family in the 21st century. Dr. DePaulo, welcome to the show.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Thank you for having me.

Gabe Howard: Well, I’m very excited you’re here because I can’t recall a period of time in, definitely my adult life, but probably my entire life where I wasn’t either in a relationship or looking for a relationship. And honestly, that’s why your work intrigued me so much. You wrote an article called The Badass Personalities of People Who Like Being Alone. And it just it really changed my thinking about being single and of course, by extension, single people. Now you have a name for people who like to be single. Can you share?

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yes, it’s single at heart, those are people who live their best lives by being single, their most authentic, fulfilling, meaningful lives, and for people who are single at heart, they’re not single because they were unlucky in love where they couldn’t find someone or they have issues or they were just stuck with it. It’s not a default. It’s a choice we embrace. I consider myself one of them and we embrace being single.

Gabe Howard: I’m really looking at my own life because I really had two settings, either in a relationship or looking for a relationship, and from my vantage point, and I’m happily married, I want you to know that. But what’s so incredibly interesting is the people around me, they supported this idea that Gabe either needed to be in a relationship or looking for a relationship. People would be like, oh, Gabe’s single, oh, I have the perfect friend. Is this what life is like for everybody?

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Well, you know, that has been the assumption so often and so pervasively that everybody wants to get married, everybody wants to be in a romantic relationship. But just a few weeks ago, the Pew Research Center, they reported a survey that they did just before the pandemic started in which they asked solo single people who didn’t already have a partner. Do you want to have a committed romantic relationship? And then they asked another question, do you want to date? And half of the people, 50 percent, did not want a romantic relationship and they didn’t even want to date. And that’s just an astounding shattering of the kind of assumption that you just described.

Gabe Howard: There is this strong social expectation that everyone desires to be married or at the very

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Right.

Gabe Howard: Least coupled up in some manner, how

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Right.

Gabe Howard: Do single people fight that societal pressure? Don’t they just end up there to quiet their friends, family and society at large?

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Well, sometimes they do, and that’s not a good thing, because if it’s not what they want, then obviously they’re not going to be happy. But it’s also not fair to the people they end up with when they’re partnering just because they think that’s what they should do. Would you want to be stuck with someone who was just doing it just with you out of social pressure? And I found some some really fascinating stories from people who meet the love of their life. And they’re in this relationship. Their partner makes their hearts pitter patter. And, you know, they’re crazy in love and their partner loves them back. And even though they have found this perfect person, they don’t want to be in a relationship. It’s just fascinating that this expectation has such a hold on us that it gets us into a relationship we don’t want. And most of those are the lucky ones who end up with someone that they do love. So, you know, at least there’s that. But, you know, a lot of people who really prefer being single, who live their best lives are single. People end up in relationships that aren’t that great. And then their partner keeps wondering, what’s wrong? What am I doing wrong? Well, maybe nothing.

Gabe Howard: It really sounds like and then please, please correct me if I’m wrong, it really sounds like they’re remaining single intentionally on purpose. They’re planning on being single. And I really, genuinely believed that people ended up single because it just turned out that way. You’re saying that there are people making intentional choices to remain single.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yes, especially now that the idea that it’s legitimate, it’s fine, it’s a totally respectable way to live as that idea is getting out there, more people are making that decision. I think for a lot of people, they have had to go through the process of trying out romantic relationships and thinking to themselves, oh, what’s wrong with me? Why don’t I want this too? I have issues. I need to see a therapist and maybe some people do. But for people who are single at heart, they really do best on their own. And it’s not just, oh, well, they can settle for being on their own, but they have some very psychologically healthy profiles. For example, they tend to be more open minded. And in several studies, they are actually less neurotic than people who don’t like being alone or people who are afraid of being single.

Gabe Howard: I watched your very popular TEDx talk, over a million views, it was called What no one ever told you about people who are single (sic). And in it you discuss research that shows that contrary to conventional wisdom, married people are not appreciably happier than single people. And divorced people are in a worse position. If research shows that marriage does not appreciably increase happiness. Why do we all think that it does?

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Well, first, the question is, if you get married, will you be happier? And we’re all led to believe, yes, yes, yes, yes, that’s the way to get happiness. And in fact, we use that almost as a synonym. Oh, Gabe deserves to be happy. He should find someone right?

Gabe Howard: Yeah.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: And yet there are now dozens of studies that follow the same people over the course of their lives starting when they’re single. And then if they get married and when people get married, they don’t become any happier than they were when they were single. At best, they become a tiny bit happier around the time of the wedding. It’s all so exciting. And then they go back to being as happy or unhappy as they were when they were single. So, this idea that, oh, get married and that’s your magical route to happiness, tons of research shows it’s just not true. And yet, like you say, we believe that it’s such a hard myth to shatter. Not because the data aren’t there, but because people are really invested in believing that it’s true, because what marriage and long term romantic coupling is held out to offer isn’t just happiness, but a whole life that falls in place. You find that one special person and now you have your soulmate, your travel mate, your co-parent if you are a parent, your s*xual partner, your confidante. And you will not just be happier, but you’ll be healthier and you’ll live longer and all of your wishes will come true. And of course, I mean, imagine that. That sounds like a magical snake oil that people used

Gabe Howard: Right.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: To sell, but what a thing to grab on to. I mean, imagine that if you find a person and then that’s it, you’re set. So people are invested in believing that and it’s very hard to dissuade them from that very attractive belief.

Gabe Howard: You are right, the concept of the one permeates our culture, but one of the things that you mentioned was there your s*xual partner. Now, for many people, marriage and s*xuality, they they go hand in hand. In fact, you cannot have one without the other. And that it makes me wonder, are people who choose to remain single, are they as*xual? Are the two things related, unrelated? How does that fit together?

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: People who are single at heart, are a little more likely to be as*xual than people who aren’t. But the as*xuals are still in the minority, even among the single at heart. And what they do for s*xual gratification is some just don’t care. And then everybody else does what they want to. You know, there’s not the stigma anymore of having s*x outside of marriage. So you don’t need to be married to have s*xual partners or just people that you connect with for that reason. And different people have different ways of solving it. That’s really one of the main lessons about being single and especially single heart, is that it’s not a restrictive restricting thing to be. It’s expansive. So if you’re married, the expectation is that your partner is your s*x partner and you have s*x with them and you don’t have s*x with anyone else. Whereas if you’re single, the whole wide world of alternatives is open to you. You can not have s*x at all. Or you could gratify yourself or you could have s*x with different people, or you could have s*x with one person that you have some understanding with. There are just lots of possibilities and it’s a very personal individual matter.

Gabe Howard: I like how you put that, that there’s an array of options that people don’t think about, because when it comes to s*x, even though our culture is very s*xualized, we also have this idea that you also have to find the one that must be your long-term s*xual partner. And certainly we’re now seeing, you know, marriages that are non-monogamous. We’re seeing polyamory

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: And on and on and on.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Consensual non monogamy, right? Yeah,

Gabe Howard: Yes, consensual non monogamy. Yeah, but it is fascinating, this idea that we put so much on marriage and what you’re saying is that marriage isn’t actually solving as many problems as we thought that it was, and in fact, it’s creating some. And that doesn’t make marriage bad. It just doesn’t make single bad. And that’s really the message, if I understand correctly, that single is a choice. You can do what you want. Nobody’s hurting anybody. And.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Oh, that’s too grudging, that is way too grudging. Single life can be an absolutely wonderful, empowering, amazing, fulfilling, meaningful life.

Gabe Howard: It makes me wonder, though, and I’m heavily engrossed in this must be in a relationship, so I’m giving you full permission to smack me down, please school me here, but there’s this little piece of me that’s just sitting here like, well, but maybe they haven’t met the right person yet. They’re just, they’re just very picky. And as soon as the right one comes along, they’ll

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Right.

Gabe Howard: Completely see things Gabe’s way. I hear how that sounds, even as I’m saying it.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yeah, it’s an important point because a lot of people will think that way, and that’s why I love these stories and I have a whole collection of them, of people who have met, the one, who have a partner they love, a partner who loves them back. And one person, for example, was telling me that she was trying to explain to her partner why she wants to be single. And she would say, now I have these adventures I want to do. And he said, well, we can do this together, but that’s not it. That’s not the life that she wants and envisions and cherishes and savors. So it’s not who we are. People who are single at heart, having a romantic partner at the center of our lives, it’s just not who we are. It’s like trying to tell somebody who’s not heteros*xual to just keep trying to find a person that makes the heart pitter patter. It’s not going to happen.

Gabe Howard: We’ll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

Sponsor Message: Gabe here and I wanted to tell you about Psych Central’s other podcast that I host, Not Crazy. It’s straight talk about the world of mental illness and it is hosted by me and my ex-wife. You should check it out at PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy or your favorite podcast player.

Sponsor Message: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. Our counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face to face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Gabe Howard: We’re back with America’s foremost thinker and writer on the single experience, Dr. Bella DePaulo. So, what advice do you have for all of the probably well-meaning but yet incredibly nosy relatives and even strangers? How do single at heart people handle the Gabe Howard’s of the world that decide to, I’m making air quotes, correct them or help them when they don’t actually need help? Because I know how strong this messaging is, and I have to imagine that it’s stronger if you disagree with it.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yes, there are these amazing studies that looked at how people react to single people and they looked at two different kinds of single people, single people who really want to be couples, they don’t like being single and single people who chose to be single on their happily single. And guess which single people get treated most harshly? The single people who are happily single. Other people will say to them, oh, you’re not really happy, you just haven’t met the one. They even expressed anger at the single people who say that they’re happily single. And I think, again, it comes back to that mythical magical formula we’re offered that if you just find the right person, all the pieces of your life will fall in place and you’ll live happily ever after and you’ll be healthy and you’ll even be morally superior to what you wrote in your book. And so single people who are happily single threaten that myth, that promise that’s held out to people. And so they are rebuked and it’s difficult. So my advice is, to be honest. To say, I like being single. This is my best life, but know that you probably will not be treated kindly and people will second guess you as if they know your feelings better than you do. Oh, you don’t really feel that way. Oh, you just haven’t met someone. You’ll change your mind, you’ll outgrow it. One good thing now is that it’s easier than ever for people to find their tribes, especially online. So, for example, I started this online Facebook community called the Community of Single People. And it’s open to mostly everyone. But really, I started it for single people who love their single life and who want to be there for each other in supporting other people who also love being single and don’t want to have to feel defensive about all the time. And since I started that in 2015, we now have about four thousand seven hundred members from more than a hundred nations.

Gabe Howard: And they’re just living their best life, minding their own business, they don’t need

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: Married people, coupled people telling them what to do, they’re just.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Right, and so we talk about the things that people say to us and make fun of them. So it’s kind of a nice place.

Gabe Howard: It’s interesting that you brought up that even though you’re single, you desire to have emotional relationships, they’re just not romantic relationships. Right? I really bought into these cultural messages that thinks, well, if you want to be single, it means that you’re antisocial. It means that you don’t

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Oh my gosh.

Gabe Howard: Want to make connections. It means that you hate people.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Oh, that’s so sad.

Gabe Howard: I just I know I know how wrong that is,

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yes.

Gabe Howard: But it’s hard to get over.

Bella DePaulo, Ph.D.: Yes, it’s actually exactly wrong because and again, there’s good research on this showing that when people get married, they become more insular, they pay less attention to their friends, they reach out to their parents less, and they become this little insular couple or family. Now, it doesn’t happen to all married couples, of course, but on the average, the married people who whose social worlds shrink and it’s the single people who have more friends who do more of the work of keeping up with their friends and neighbors, relatives, coworkers, they are more often the life of their towns and communities. And so, the actual data is exactly the opposite of what we are led to believe by these stereotypes..

Podcast: Is Single Life Mentally Unhealthy? If you assumed all single people were only single by default and are still looking for the "one," tune in to hear a fresh new perspective.